On the Couch

On the Couch with Nathan Smith (Neuroscientific): Inside the StemSmart Strategy for Crohn's

• Marcus Today

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Welcome to the latest episode of On the Couch.

In this episode, Henry Jennings from Marcus Today sits down with Nathan Smith, CEO of Neuroscientific Biopharmaceuticals, to unpack how a differentiated mesenchymal stem cell therapy is progressing from acquisition to patient impact in refractory Crohn's disease.

With promising real-world data via special access programs, a clear regulatory path, and lean execution, the company is preparing for a focused Phase 2 push in 2026.


Topics covered in this episode:

  • What the StemSmart MSC platform is – and why differentiation matters
  • Special access program results in fistulising Crohn's
  • Prior early-phase data and how it informs trial design
  • Market size for refractory Crohn's and broader inflammatory targets
  • Regulatory steps, including pre-IND and TGA interactions
  • Manufacturing tech transfer with QGen and licensure plans
  • 2026 milestones across CRO onboarding, trial initiation, and IP expansion
  • Cash runway to trial start and approach to raising capital
  • Competitive landscape and lessons from Mesoblast's US approval
  • A CEO's take on what actually drives market value


Disclaimer: This is general advice only. It doesn't take your personal circumstances into account. Please speak to a licensed adviser before acting on anything in this episode.

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SPEAKER_01:

Well, hello, and welcome to another episode of On the Couch. Myself, Henry Jennings from Markers today. And today I'm delighted to be joined by Nathan Smith, the CEO of Neuroscientific Stock Code NSB. Now, some of you will remember that we wrote Neuroscientific up late last year. We saw them present at a Jane Morgan lunch at the Opera House. Very nice lunch, it was too. And uh so we thought we'd uh get the story from the horse's mouth. Recently, Nathan's been uh pretty proactive with the announcements, some good announcements coming along. And uh this this actually is is Nathan's first gig as a CEO of an ASX company. So um uh it's not his first rodeo as far as uh cell therapy goes because this is what these guys do. He served as director of business development at uh Genzyme Corp and Mesoblast and Glaxo Smith Klein and many other leading cell therapy companies. So that is um that is serious credentials there. So welcome, Nathan. Really looking forward to having a chat today.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, thanks, thanks for having me here. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, it's my pleasure. Now, just before we kick off, as always, I have to put the disclaimer in is general advice only, so please do your own research, contact your own financial advisor regarding any of the thoughts, ideas, or insights in this podcast. Nathan, um first of all, I guess the first thing to get out of the way is Neuroscientific. Give us a bit of a uh background, what do you guys do? Um and uh what what's the company all about?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, uh thanks, Henry. I appreciate that. Um the Neuroscientific's uh we're an innovation company really focused on uh biologics and biopharmaceuticals, um, and uh we recently acquired last year a product called Stem Smart, which is a mesenchymal stem cell product, um, which has some fantastic uh clinical data already existing um from early phase trials um in a number of different indications, including Crohn's disease. Um and uh previously uh before the acquisition of Stem Smart in June of last year, um Neuroscientific had a um a neuroscience product, hence the name of the company. Um and uh but that that product i it there's still some development work going on with it in the background, but um there was a there was some uh complications on its pathway towards commercialization. So um the idea was was to kind of uh step back on on the development product um and look at potentially acquiring another one, and and so that was when the acquisition um of a company called Isopogen um out of Western Australia. Um that happened in June of last year, and then I came on in July. We brought on our chief chief medical officer also in July as well. Um, and we've done a lot of work in that time to advance this product, and um I'm sure we'll get into a lot more of that, um, including the the results that we announced earlier this year. But um going a little bit more back into the product itself, um STEM Smart uh and and you know again not too sure how um how much people know about um mesenchymal stem cells, but they're basically they're they're stem cells that are taken from adult bone marrow. Um really we obtain our stem cells from bone marrow from um adult patients um from their hip, and then we're able to isolate out the stem cells from the bone marrow. And then we're we grow them up, we actually have a uh patented manufacturing process that results in a a differentiated stem cell, uh differentiated MSC. So um other uh other organizations in the industry, you know, specifically probably Mesoblast is the best known uh name in the industry. Um our cells are are are differentiated in the fact in through the manufacturing process because we have a patented manufacturing process. And so during that manufacturing process, we actually the cells are actually upregulated, so um they have a slightly different activity profile, and um, and we think that's the basis behind how successful it's been in early phase clinical trials and in patients with um severe inflammation inflammatory diseases, such as Crohn's disease, which is our uh our number one priority at this moment in time. Um and uh and we have some amazing clinical data backing that as well, along with the special access program that we just that that we're in the middle of right now, and and we announced the the you know results from three patients that had had you know absolutely fantastic results. So um, yeah, so that's that's the product in in a nutshell. Um it is, you know, it's a it's you know, as we talked about, it's the product was acquired in in June of last year uh by NSB. And so it's a it's a pretty relatively rapid uh you know pace that we've been going for a life science product for a biologics uh cell therapy product to uh to do all the work that we've been doing in the meantime. Um, you know, we've we're in the middle of transferring the manufacturing and getting see engaging with CROs and regulatory agencies to progress this program as as fast as we can, honestly, because I think there's a there is a direct commercialization pathway here, um, especially with what's been carved out and what uh Mesoblast has achieved in the United States. So um I think that's what neuroscience neuroscientific is is really about and and you know what I've been trying to to drive in my time here in my six months plus um at the helmet at Neuroscientific.

SPEAKER_01:

Um if nothing else today I've learned how to pronounce Meso and Crinal stem cells. So that that's that's that's good because I always trip up on that. And I guess you know, Meso Blast has been around for such a long time. We're we've we've we've kind of got to the point where we we're kind of familiar with it, but we're not that familiar with it because it's still you know it's still pretty much at the cutting edge of stem cells. As Meso Blast's recent success, and it has been you know, it's been a long road to travel, has that really helped you guys in terms of uh paving the way in the market?

SPEAKER_03:

No doubt, no doubt. I mean they've done some look I and and full disclosure, I actually worked at Mesoblast back in uh when was it 2011-ish time frame in uh in in New York City? Um and so I I I know Sylview and and some of the team over on the US side and and the Australian side as well. Um also know some some of the people who have uh who have since um moved on from Miso Blast and been really successful, like Killian Kelly, who's the CEO at Synata, um as well. And so I see him at a at a number of different events and things like that, so we catch up uh all the time. But um, but yeah, I mean look, Mesoblast has done some amazing things. Uh and and um uh you know I think I think that they, you know, their the the the achievement of getting marketing authorization in the United States for their for their graph versus host disease product, their pediatric product, um, is an amazing achievement. And I think it's you know uh to my understanding it's the first mesenchymal stem cell product um that has gained marketing authorization in the United States, which is absolutely fantastic and and has um and and really I think uh it it's it's the the the crowning achievement of of all of the development that's happened with mesenchymal stem cells um over the years. Because the the the the you know they've there's been a lot of development research in the MSC product uh in MSCs for a long time. There's been a lot of promise with them. But being able to finally get them developed and get them into patients, get marketing authorization, get the clinical data that they needed is a is an excellent achievement. And and it does. It really, I think it benefits and raises the entire field as a whole within the cell therapy field and people working in in mesenchymal stem cells, both you know, obviously here in Australia, but then also abroad around the world as well. Um and so really what how it how it directly impacts us is the fact that you know there is uh there's a pathway. There's a pathway to marketing authorization now, right, for these types of products. And so now it's not it's not something that's completely new, right? It's not something that you know uh Miso Blast has done the the hard yards in paving that pathway and and setting the stake in the ground. And now um other organizations like us can come and you know and develop and you know, and we think we've got a different product than them. And you know, if we can demonstrate you know strong clinical effect, um we can always you know follow down that same pathway. And I think that's one of the the great things that Muse Blast has achieved with that you know with what they've done.

SPEAKER_01:

Now you're obviously uh well sounds I'm not great on American accents, but I would say you're a New Yorker.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh I'm from Philadelphia actually. But I lived in New York, lived in outside of Boston uh and uh and and the DC area, so mostly the East Coast.

SPEAKER_01:

So um, you know, it's obviously quite a commitment to um to upend your family, and you're now based based in Melbourne. So that that's um that that's a pretty positive thing to uh do. Were you in Australia before you got the gig? No.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, well, uh before I I I moved over in 2015. Right. Um and I was recruited by uh Cell Therapies, which is a the a contract manufacturing organization that's based out of the Peter McCallum Cancer Center. Um and I when I when I joined there, um I was I think we were living in the Boston area um before that, um, and you know, got uh uh got a working visa, came over since that time, you know, permanent residency, bought a house, had a kid, all that stuff, and and my son, uh I was just saying that my son started prep today, which is absolutely fantastic, and we're excited about it. Um but yeah, I moved over here in 2015 um to join Cell Therapies, ended up uh um, you know, I managed their the project implementation side of things for the contract manufacturer, um, and then took over business development, you know, a couple years in and was there in total for uh nine years before leaving um in October of 24. And so um, you know, worked with a number of different organizations during that time. Um in uh and one of the, I guess one of the the probably the the crowning achievements during my time was was um you know uh I you know I won the contract for the Navaris um commercial manufacturing, um, you know, along obviously along with the rest of the rest of our team, but um, you know, was heavy, you know, heavily involved and you know, uh really worked through the negotiations and the contracts with uh Navardis um contract for uh their car T product for commercial manufacturing of their car T product during that time. And I've also won contracts with um BioNTech and and a number of other international companies during my time there, bringing their bringing the manufacturing to Australia and to the Australian ecosystem. And so um and and that was that was a great experience. And I think uh what that really did was, you know, I got heavily immersed obviously in Australian ecosystem, the cell therapy field, everything like that, while still maintaining my connections in the United States. And um, and so that was a a big benefit to cell therapies during that time. It helped me grow a ton and um I think set me up for success, hopefully, um here at uh at Neuroscientific.

SPEAKER_01:

Um Nathan, it's um maybe we should talk about the last announcement because this kind of set the you know, the the the stock wasn't um, you know, it was I wouldn't say stuck, but it was kind of uh 10 cents. And then you had a very positive announcement. Can you put some more sort of meat on the bones in terms of the last announcement with uh with Crohn's disease?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so uh as part of the um as part of the acquisition, uh, when Neuroscientific acquired um the STEM Smart technology in June, they agreed to open up a what they call a special access program here in Australia. So a special access program is where an organization can work with clinicians uh to treat patients that really have very few treatment options for their disease. And so um we're working with a gastroenterologist with some gastroenterologists mostly out of Western Australia, um, and uh we were looking to treat patients with fistalizing Crohn's disease. So it's a it's fistulizing Crohn's is a is a very debilitating form of Crohn's disease, where the patients actually form fistules um in the perianal cavity. And so um it's look the quality of life for these patients is really, really um, really tough. And so and they're looking for solutions, they've failed um previous lines of treatment that includes steroids, antibiotics, um, and uh and even big blockbuster biologic drugs like Stellara and Um and Humera. And so um, you know, they're looking, these patients don't really have a ton of options outside of surgery. And so um working with some of the with the gastroenterologists, um, you know, they you know, we were able to supply these patients and get approval from the TGA. So these patients actually have to apply to and the clinicians have to apply to the TGA to be able to treat these patients with an unapproved product, like STEM Smart. STEMSMART hasn't isn't on the market at this time, so it's it's considered an unapproved product. And so the the gastroenterologists apply to the TGA, the TGA approves the patients to get treated with this unapproved product, and then um they treated the patients under a protocol um with STEM Smart, under a clinical protocol, and you know, and and were able to um they were measuring a number of different things, and um, and what we were able to find was that the patients had to achieve, in order to achieve what they called a clinical result, right, was they had to have um a closure of greater than or equal to 50% of the fistules or a reduction in the discharge of at least 50% um for these patients. And uh we we were able to treat four patients before the end of the year, um and uh and to date three of them have achieved that clinical result, which is what we what we announced in January. The fourth one um did achieve what they called a partial result, but did not get to the threshold to achieve a you know a full clinical result. And so um so even with that patient that did not that didn't we didn't report a uh uh uh a clinical result, we that the the gastroenterologist actually did see some improvement as well. And so that's actually that's a fantastic result, especially for some of these patients where they don't have many treatment options. It's a it's an opportunity for us um to it's an opportunity that that they might not have that they may have in the future to be able to treat this type if uh this type of disease if we can get the product to market um for them. And so the data that we have from that is going to help us inform our upcoming phase two trial. Um and we're still working through the design of that phase two trial, but because there was such a positive impact for the fistializing Crohn's, we may uh initially we were looking at only the broader refractory Crohn's indication, but we may look at an ARM or even maybe a parallel study in specifically fistalizing Crohn's patients uh here in Australia. Um so that we're still working through that design. Um but the this this the data and the positive results from the special access program um for the fistalizing Crohn's patients is on top of, it sits on top of absolutely fantastic data we have from earlier phase trials for this asset back prior to uh neuroscientific's or NSB's acquisition of the STEM Smart Technology, where we had a there was an earlier phase um small phase two clinical trial that was done where they treated 18 patients and we saw um a 78% complete response rate, right? Which is absolutely fantastic. Um and so that you know, and and and these were patients that had failed prior lines of treatment, again, had failed biologic drugs, had failed uh um antibiotics and steroids. And so 78% of the patients um met the threshold for a complete response under a clin under clinical trial um uh uh structure. And so that that actually is, I think, was the basis for the NSB acquisition of STEM Smart initially. But what the this the this most recent announcement here of the the three patients that that achieved a clinical result in the special access program validates that acquisition, validates NSB's investment in this technology and gives plenty of momentum moving forward for us for the phase two trial to you know that we have full confidence it's going to be very successful. And again, part of that's gonna be in how we design the trial and how you know we make sure that we got the right patient populations, all that to give it the best chance for success. Um and then from that point forward, you know, we'll be working with regulatory agencies, potential partners in taking it through to full to commercialization.

SPEAKER_01:

I have to say that anything that has the word fistalizing in is I know it's it's uh it's I mean it sounds horrible, just even the words. Um these poor people that are suffering from it. What's the sort of the total addressable market here you're looking for? Is it a huge market or is it a very specific uh subset of Crohn's that uh Yeah, no, no, look, we're looking at the we're looking at the the refractory market.

SPEAKER_03:

I think the the total market we're we're looking at somewhere in the 10 to 10 to 15 billion range. Um we're look the you know the the the total population globally that have Crohn's disease is around uh six million, um six to eight million, I think it is, with over a million in the US alone. Um and uh 30% of Crohn's patients fail um the previous the the current therapies out there, right? So, you know, 30% of that population is what we're trying to to access with this this product. Um and so that's still a a pretty s pretty hefty um population there, right? Um but that being said, I don't want to limit us, because this is a you know, this stem cell, this this stem smart product that we have, this stem cell technology that we we're we're we're working with is a platform technology. And so um it's it really it the the more severe the inflammation the better these cells work, right? And so why this works very well for Crohn's, but we've actually seen, and there's actually been a number of earlier phase uh clinical studies that have been done and other special access programs that have been done using uh that have been completed using this this product in things like kidney transplantation, lung transplantation, um COPD, graph versus host disease. There are a number of other indications aside from just Crohn's, um, but the Crohn's market and and the the I think the indication itself is is is very um I think is is something that's not too saturated and and is a is a is a market that we think that has some some some huge promise there. And so um and and is a and is a good target right now um with competition that you know there there have been other products in the past, um some of them have been com coming off the market. Um we know Miso Blast has some eyes on Crohn's disease, but they're not actively pushing that forward, right? They have other priorities, and I think from our side what that does is it g it's it's an opportunity for us.

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. Um so you know, you've got the phase two trial in in the wind, you're you're busy designing that. What other milestones would should we be looking for, I guess, in in 2026 to to drive the share price higher again?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, sure. So look, there's going to be a there's going to be another number of operational pieces. A lot of it's going to be us making sure that we are on track to initiate that trial. So we're planning to have a pre-IND meeting in probably in Q2. That's going to help inform the the clinical development, the clinical trial and how we design that trial. We are in the process of tech transferring the manufacturing so we'll have um announcements around you know the the the various uh manufacturing runs that we're doing with our partner in in Queensland um QGen Cell Therapeutics in getting everything ready and then we'll you know there will be a TGA licensure that will need to happen with the manufacturing so that'll be a a part of the announcements that we'll have. We will finish up the the the special access program. I think we've got another patient that we're treating I think next week which will be fantastic. And and there's still some analysis needs to be done on the on that fourth patient that did that did not achieve a complete response. So there's still some some clinic some data from the special access program that will be coming out. But look already you know the fact that out of the four patients treated three have you know achieved the the clinical response and the fourth one achieved the partial response I think from our side is is already you know we already see that as a success moving forward. Other announcements include you know I think we're we're in the process of bringing on a clinical research organization to support the the the clinical trial. So I think a lot of pieces are really going to be operational. We're also looking at different ways to to broaden the IP potential licensing targets as well. And so we're in the process doing some due diligence on a couple of different targets there. That will broaden the you know what indications we can go after and be able to use our STEM smart product potentially in combination with some other applications to reach certain patient populations that we can't right now. So what that does then is that broadens the potential market for the STEM smart product and and I think you know strengthens our IP position as well. So hopefully and and hopefully those will be coming will we'll we'll get through the due diligence and be able to to lock down you know a deal one one or two deals um by mid-year this year. So you know a number of different things we're looking at I think also we're we'll be starting once we have the the clinical trial and and and obviously the initiation of the clinical trial in Q4 of this year is really what the big one that we're targeting there. And so that's kind of what the the the timeline of announcements that we have at this moment in time. But we'll also be working on other the other indications as well as we get closer and closer to the initiation of the Crohn's trial um looking at uh the next next kind of indication that we're going to target and go after that and start the development there as well.

SPEAKER_01:

It's going to be a busy year Nathan you're already it is very busy man. You're only a I guess you're a micro cap to some extent$50 million market cap. What's your sort of cash position like at the moment?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah so we've got uh we've got a little you know six and a half I think about six and a half million in the bank right now um we we we've our runway is is solid through the the end of the year um uh you know to the initiation of the trial I'll say I think um we will at some point need to raise uh to to to raise some capital to to to run the entire the entire trial um but uh you know and and we're working at you know the strategy around that and you know what the timing looks like around that everything there um but uh from a cash position I mean look everything that we've got moving forward um leading up to the trial you know we we're we're very comfortable um there which is actually a great position again I mean you know it's it's funny isn't it I mean a lot of investors um always complain about companies that continue to raise money but at the end of the day that's what the stock market is for is is a mechanism to be able to raise money to to fund the projects as long as the money is going into the good things as as opposed to the bad things you know that that that's a that's a good thing and and people should back um you know companies like yourselves to actually produce and to uh to get the trying results so I I don't think raising money is necessarily a bad thing in fact it it it's a good thing as long as it goes in the right place. Now I think that's I think look and I think that's a great point. I mean you know we we're trying to be very um I think we're we're trying to be very smart with the with the money that we have in our hands, right? It needs to be driving towards a very specific strategy. And you know and I think we'll continue to demonstrate that right I think you know be fiscally responsible but you know make sure that you're able to invest in the things that you need in order to get the results that you need that I think not just not only benefit patients and everything like that but also benefit the market too. That's really what we're how that's my philosophy in in in it moving forward I think um and and you're right I look I you know when I joined when I came over from from uh from the United States you know Cell Therapies which was the contract manufacturer I worked for was a private company and so you know the access to capital was a very different animal there from a private side from the private side of things than than from the public side of things. So I think um using as a mechanism but also you know making sure that you're you know smart with it I think is really going to be important for us.

SPEAKER_01:

Are there any competitors out there that you look at and go, oh we need to um we need to keep an eye on these guys because um you know obviously mesoblast is out there from an from an ASX Australian perspective but there anybody out there that you look at and you think ooh okay just just be a little bit careful they're they they're doing well or you know they could steal our market. Is there anyone out there?

SPEAKER_03:

Not directly in the competition that we're looking at from our side that I that I can see. I mean the really the you know obviously Mesoblast is something somebody that we have to keep an eye on you know and they they're they're first first cab off the rank and you know they've got a patent position around a lot of things that we have to make sure that we we navigate around and and and they've been very smart around that which is which is which makes a lot of sense since they're you know they're they were early to the party. But with a lot of the other uh programs that are out there there's some that are you know there's there's probably one or two in the US that we keep an eye on um you know uh but really in the Australian uh it's more of a kind of a camaraderie I would say with some of the other groups like you know like I mentioned you know Killian with Sinata they're going after different indications and they've got a different type of product so it's not really they're adjacent to us. But you know again I think you know just like we saw with Miso Blast right uh the their success you know lifts the the rest of the the ecosystem as a whole and and I think that's what we need to continue to see right um you know coming from the United States into the Australian ecosystem you know into looking at you know the the the the the way biologics and the cell therapy fields and everything like that um it it's really about in my mind it's really about commercial success right there aren't a ton of you know commercially successful cell therapy programs that have been Australian developed you know Australian research you know Australian you know uh treating patients here in Australia doing trials here in Australia and m actually able to reach that commercial success um level and I think that's something that's really needed here in the Australian ecosystem. And so you know that's why it's great to see you know what the what Mesoblast has achieved and and you know what some of the other groups that are out there are trying to do and and you know again I think we can benefit from that as a whole.

SPEAKER_01:

Now Nathan people say you know it's not your first rodeo and this isn't your first rodeo in terms of cell therapies however it is your first rodeo in terms of running an ISX listed company. Well what I guess what are the the challenges and the surprises of of taking that leap into the unknown as as a newly christened CEO of an IS listed company.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh I think from my side it was really it's really learning about what the market wants what what what are the what are the things that are driving what what drives value um to different portions of the market because there are different you know obviously different investors have different values and and different drivers for why they invest and why they back certain companies things like that. And that's still a learning process for me right you know I I the scientific you know in my past and in in running business development for you know for cell therapies um here in Melbourne um you know I I knew my audience when it came to working with development companies you know uh or with you know with with technology companies or with vendors or this or that you know I I knew the audience pretty well and knew kind of what the drivers were for um for coming to to to to agreements in in direction for for different things um uh and everything so uh for me now I'm I'm I'm really trying to learn kind of that audience when it comes to the market and different sectors of the market and what what drives them what are the what messages resonate right I think that's that's the biggest piece and um you know and it's it's a learning curve and um and so that's something that I've in my six months of has been uh I think you know at the helm has been um has been something I'm I'm I'm continuing to grow and develop and you know um look at all the other stuff with the AS on from the ASX side you know the the you know the reporting and and you know kind of the announcements and everything like that that's stuff that you know that I can you know as long as you've got a good COSEC and you know you're able to and and a and a and a good board I think you know which we do um you know and a great team you know we're able to to manage those I think pretty pretty readily it's really more now about how do we how do we successfully impact the market right how do we successfully make sure that when we are doing good things that that we we shout we're able to to actually get that out to the people that need to know and the people that are interested and that it means something to right so that they know hey this is I'm I'm really I'm really thankful to see that this is com that this is being successful. And so that's that's that's what I'm continuing to work on.

SPEAKER_01:

Well you've got good partners in the IR space with Jane and her team at Jane Morgan management. So um I I saw you guys um present back in October a very nice at the Opera House you know it it always strikes me that you know with biotechs um people sometimes forget about their head and concentrate on their heart you know biotech's gonna cure cancer and we've all been touched by cancer in one form or another friends, relatives family etc so you know that that can target your heartstrings and sometimes it can blind you to uh the inherent issues and risks. But um you know I was very impressed with your presentation back in I think it was October and uh it just it it resonated with me uh that you guys were sort of on the right track doing some good things and I guess with the pathfinder in the industry of something someone like Mesoblast and Silvu then you know that really does help you know some of the ground's been broken for you so that was good.

SPEAKER_03:

So yeah I mean I'm excited to see what you guys do this year Nathan I have to say yeah no I appreciate that and and look I get what you're saying I mean I I also but I also feel that you know there are you're right you know you you can't invest with your you can't invest with your heart all the time right um you it's gotta be you know you have to understand the risks and the benefits and things like that um but I think that there are there are things that were that have been invested with the heart that have enabled amazing achievements right um you know so there's a balance to that I think um because you know we need dreamers we need we need the people who are willing to put it out there right we're that are willing to to to say hey you know this is there's something about this that that that's really appealing to it right and you know be smart about it right but you know but we also need those people who are willing to take that chance because you know there are there are some pretty amazing look the technology out there that's um is amazing there's there's tons of potential in the things that we're developing all around the world right it's how do we how do we now take that from potential to reality right and and um you know from concept to commercialization or however you want to put it right um and that that comes there's a lot of hard work by the people who are developing it but there's also you know there is investment that needs to happen and there needs to be a belief system behind that investment um in order to make those things reality and so uh like I said I mean I I think you're completely correct right we can't invest um with the heart but I think the heart needs to be part of that investment right heart needs to be part of the decision making there because you know at the end of the day that's what makes us human right um so that that's just my perspective on it.

SPEAKER_01:

Well Nathan that's a fantastic perspective and I wish neuroscientific a fantastic year for 2026. I'm sure we've got big things ahead for you guys so thank you so much for coming on the show today really do appreciate it lovely to meet you um good luck with your son's first day at um at school exciting moment yeah new school uniform yeah new school uniform he looks great in it so I I remember those days I remember the I remember my first day new school uniform I was so proud it was so crisp yeah so so un unspoiled and I think that lasted probably about two or three days I'm expecting there to be chocolate and dirt and everything else on it so we'll we'll see how it goes. Well if there isn't he's not having fun. Exactly exactly he's not getting involved enough but Nathan thank you so much for your time it's been really great and uh I wish you all the best in 2026.

SPEAKER_03:

No I appreciate it Henry